Euthyphro Dilemma: Solved by Invoking "God's Nature"?

I left a comment (you have to open the +/- comment box) on a recent post at DC I wanted to share. I have created a hypothetical dialogue between a theist and an atheist over the Euthyphro Dilemma concerning Divine Command Theory. Theists try to evade the issue by invoking "God's nature" as a basis for God's action, supposedly removing the arbitrary issue involved. This highlights much of the supposed "debate" between theists and atheists over the "basis/foundation" of morality, IMHO:

Atheist: Please define "good" for me.

Theist: Anything God does.

Atheist: And so how do you know when God acts, or that it is God doing something, rather than a devil, or just us humans?

Theist: God's nature is clearly different than human nature, and that of the devil.

Atheist: How do you know God's nature?

Theist: From Scripture and revelation.

Atheist: And how do you know that something IS Scripture [holy writings] or revelation?

Theist: Okay, you have a good point. We both get caught in vicious infinite regresses, or in circularity, if we do this all day. By fiat, I'll define God's nature as "perfectly good" and say that everything God does follows from God's own nature. I'll also presuppose that God is revealed in the Bible and that I can know God's nature from that.

Atheist: By fiat, I will define/presuppose "causing senseless and extensive suffering, when one need not cause it," as evil.

Theist: Well, what is your "basis" for such? Isn't that arbitrary?

Atheist: Isn't it circular and arbitrary to pick the Bible as your source of revelation, to claim that God is revealed therein, to claim this God has a perfectly good nature, and to justify it in a circular manner?

Theist: Well my starting point is to say I have found the ultimate goodness and ultimate authority -- this lends normativity to me.

Atheist: I don't see that you can "create" such a starting point, any more than I can avoid needing one by simply declaring the proposition itself authoritative and without need of some "person" behind it.

Theist: Fine, I'll agree with your definition of evil, so long as you'll exclude God from being that "one". Grant me that God can never be evil. You see, God always acts out of God's own nature, which is perfectly good.

Atheist: So you mean the act itself does not have a moral status, nor its consequences? Murder is not de facto wrong? All that we can pass valid moral judgment upon is who acted it out?

Theist: That is correct. If human beings decide to follow their nature [evil] and kill babies, it is evil. However, if God follows God's own nature and orders the slaughter of babies [1 Sam 15:3, etc], it is good.

Atheist: Let's see -- if God causes extensive suffering which God could have otherwise avoided, then "God's nature" is evil in my definition. If anyone else causes it, I would say the same about their own nature. You sound like a relativist. How do you avoid the charge of relativism?

Theist: But when God commands the slaughter of innocents in the OT, or allows children to rot of cancer, or does not limit the freedom of a child rapist, God has followed a perfectly good nature.

Atheist: But I thought we're trying to figure out whether something is good ipso facto by its origin [who did it] versus what it is. It doesn't seem to me to be very valid to say you can define God as good, and thus whatever God does as good, if you aren't actually defining morality by judging actions, or using consequentialism to some degree, objectively. Instead of being able to say, "X is evil," you have to qualify everything as contingent upon whether or not God is involved. This seems to remove any moral significance from God's supposed "goodness". It seems all you're doing is begging questions and committing circularity.

Theist: Well...how do you defend your use of logic? My God made it, and you can't use it without my God.

Atheist: *rolls eyes and walks away*

This is how I genuinely feel after most debates with theists. And I've seen this in action a few times -- especially ending the dialogue via burden-shifting. But I've also seen good examples of theists who do a great job of defending a position, even if the premises upon which they argue are not, by my judgment, valid. I went through a bit of a phase in which I nearly incessantly argued with theists for months about philosophy, especially the presuppositional apologetic mode.

It seems to have run its course in me, being satisfied that they:
i) confused the issue of presuppositions, proof-burdens and their validity
ii) never admit that they themselves run into either a vicious regress or circularity, just as everyone else does -- they seem to think they have, by fiat, presuppositions that are more valid just because the label "God" is attached

The most obvious example of (ii) is in the evasion of the issue of how "God's nature" solves the Euthyphro Dilemma with their absurd circularity and tautologies: God's nature is good, God is not arbitrary because God's moral character is what is followed, good is defined as whatever God does/commands/etc...
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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Atheism, Philosophy

Rutherford County, TN, 10C Case

Another 10 Commandments case that sounds exactly like the Dixie County affair. (HT: RC)
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Technorati tags: Religion, Atheism, Church-state

Two New Anti-Atheist Screeds

Did everyone see the Wall Street Journal and Guardian screeds against "secular fundamentalism"?

Oh, and check out PZ's comments on these anti-Dawkins commentaries:

Barbara calls him a "fundamentalist atheist" (that tired old slander), Chris is horrified that Dawkins seems to feel "justified in objectifying Hussein" (scientific curiousity being so much more awful than the political objectification that goes on), John talks about "the value of justice over science" (where, of course, the non-scientific approach has certainly demonstrated its nuanced appreciation of justice in this case), and Mike simply agrees with the critics.

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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Atheism

Blog Issues - Redirect

I'm in the middle of a mess -- my old URL is gone. I've relocated everything HERE for the moment. Please bear with me.

Evolution Sunday

Press release from Michael Zimmerman, creator of the Clergy Letter Project, on Evolution Sunday.

http://www.evolutionsunday.org/

Celebrate Evolution Sunday 11 February 2007

By Michael Zimmerman

The Second Annual Evolution Sunday will occur on February 11th
2007. Your help is needed to make this day a success. This date
is an opportunity for congregations across the country (indeed,
around the world) to join together to discuss the compatibility of
religion and science. Evolution Sunday is being sponsored by The
Clergy Letter Project, a collection of more than 10,400 members of
the Christian clergy who have signed a letter asserting that
Christianity and modern evolutionary science need not be at odds
with one another.

In a two paragraph plea (reproduced below), these Christian clergy
members assert that they "believe that the timeless truths of the
Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably
coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational
scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and
upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests."

They go on to urge that modern evolutionary theory rather than any form of
creationism or intelligent design be taught in our country's public
schools and conclude by requesting that "We ask that science remain
science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but
complementary, forms of truth."

One of the main goals of The Clergy Letter Project is to
demonstrate to the broad spectrum of Christian believers that,
unlike what is being shrilly shouted by many fundamentalist
ministers, a choice does not have to be made between religion and
science. Because the two are compatible, congregants should feel
comfortable accepting both. Additionally, the signers of The
Clergy Letter want to go on record making it clear that those
fundamentalist ministers are not speaking for the majority of
Christian clergy.

Last year, in an attempt to further this message and to elevate the
quality of the national discussion on this topic, The Clergy Letter
Project sponsored the First Annual Evolution Sunday event. On this
day, 467 congregations from every state, the District of Columbia
and five countries participated by hearing sermons, having an adult
education class or a children's Sunday school class, or joining in
a lunch discussion group. While each participating congregation
chose an event that made the most sense locally, together a major
international statement was made.

Last year, Evolution Sunday received a great deal of very positive
national publicity with articles in virtually every major newspaper
in the country. Indeed, the one in the New York Times was the most
e-mail article for the week it appeared. Additionally, it is clear
the event hit a nerve with creationists: both the Discovery
Institute and Answers in Genesis issued press releases condemning
Evolution Sunday.

The Second Annual Evolution Sunday event has now been scheduled for
11 February 2007. If you are a part of a congregation, please
think about having it participate. It is only by broadening the
base in this way that we will be able to reach out to a growing
number of people and, hopefully, improve the understanding that
people have about the interrelationship between science and
religion.

Signing up is easy. Simply send an e-mail to Michael Zimmerman at
mz@butler.edu indicating your congregation's desire to participate
along with the name and location of your congregation and its
leader. Your congregation will be immediately added to the growing
list.

The Clergy Letter Project's web pages provide more than 50 sermons
delivered by clergy last year on this topic. Check them out at
www.evolutionsunday.org. So, if you or a member of the clergy you
know are in need of ideas, this is a good place to start.

Additionally, if you are a member of the Clergy and have not yet
signed The Clergy Letter, please think about doing so. A note with
your name, congregation (optional) and address to mz@butler.edu
will get you signed up.

Most importantly, please help by spreading the word about The
Clergy Letter Project and Evolution Sunday to others who might be
interested in participating. Please forward this note to friends
and colleagues and ask them to do the same. Please post this note
on as many list serves as you can. In short, please help us reach
more people as quickly as we can. Efforts like this will make a
positive difference for both religion and science around the
country.

Michael Zimmerman, Dean of the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
and Professor of Biology at Butler University, Indianapolis,
Indiana, is the founder of The Clergy Letter Project.

Visit The Clergy Letter Project on the Web at
www.evolutionsunday.org

The Clergy Letter

Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of
dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret
Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible
seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and
practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible
literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved
stories found in the Bible the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and
the ark convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the
proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the
only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to
generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific
truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to
transform hearts.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different
traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the
discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe
that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth,
one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of
human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to
treat it as one theory among others is to deliberately embrace
scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.
We believe that among God's good gifts are human minds capable of
critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is
a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God's loving
plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the
God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of
hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of
the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of
evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that
science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very
different, but complementary, forms of truth.

Signed by 10,418 Christian clergy member as of 19 December 2006

It's nice to have friends on the religious side of church-state separation issues. Then, it's more difficult for theocracy proponents to argue that church-state separation = atheism.
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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Intelligent Design, Evolution, Creationism

Discrimination Against FSM Geology

I have been following with much interest the recent developments in the controversy over selling a Christian Creationist book at the NPS office of the Grand Canyon. Although some denizens of AZ are calling for the book to be pulled, I have an alternative solution: consider going the route of presenting diverse views on the geology of the Grand Canyon.

We all know that diversification in America is increasing. Some of us embrace it, others shun it.

However, you appear to be falling behind -- as of now, all you seem willing to offer are so-called "science" and Christian "creation science" books in your store. What about including my highly-scientific drawings of the noodly appendage of the FSM carving out the Canyon?

Will books on Noah's Ark also be made available?

Humanist News: Year in Review

A repost of this article:

Atheists Agenda swaps bibles for porn
Jan. 11, 2006

A group of students at the University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) made national headlines with a "Smut for Smut" campaign, in which they traded porn magazines for any religious scripture. In this column Tony Castaldo, a member of UTSA's Atheist Agenda, shares the story of this project and its results. He also responds to other freethinkers who were critical of this effort. MORE...

FEBRUARY

Election report from the Great White North
Feb 2, 2006

After the 2006 Canadian election, the prime minster elect ended his victory speech with, "God Bless Canada." To HNN's Ontario columnist, Doug Thomas, this spelled trouble for humanists in Canada. MORE...

So, is humanism losing ground in Canada?
Feb. 2. 2006

How did Québécois citizens feel about the 2006 Canadian elections? Michel Virard, of Montreal, explains. MORE...

The Heckler's Veto and the Muslim World
Feb. 8, 2006

Some of the most shocking events in 2006 were the violent riots and the sacking of European embassies in the Middle East in response to some cartoons that mocked the prophet Mohammed. The cartoons originally appeared in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. They were subsequently republished by many Western media outlets. The situation tested the limits of free speech and religious tolerance. In this column, Dr. Tim Gordinier, public policy director of the Institute for Humanist Studies, evaluates the cartoon controversy from a humanist perspective. MORE...

eBay atheist...sold to the highest bidder
Feb. 8, 2006

Hemant Mehta, a 22-year-old atheist in Chicago, offered the highest bidder on ebay the opportunity to send him to the church of his or her choosing for one hour per $10. Jim Henderson of www.Off-the-map.org, a Christian group, won the auction with a $504.00 bid. The strange auction landed Hemant on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. MORE...

Secular Coalition keeps growing, and growing...
Feb. 8, 2006
Two more national freethought organizations joined the Secular Coalition for America (SCA). The SCA is a 501(c)(4) lobbying organization that represents humanists, atheists and freethinkers in Washington D.C. Former Nevada State Senator Lori Lipman Brown is the director/lobbyist of the SCA. MORE...

Letters to the Editor
Feb. 15, 2006
HNN readers reacted to the now historic Muhammed cartoon controversy in many ways. Some felt the cartoons were offensive, while others thought they were necessary in order to point out the deadly results of religious extremism. MORE...

MARCH

Court: Schools can't turn away military recruiters for anti-gay policy
March 8, 2006

The military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy resurfaced in the news with the U.S. Supreme Court case Rumsfeld v. FAIR. According to a unanimous Supreme Court, Congress can require colleges to give access to the military even without providing federal aid to the school. But the court also ruled that colleges can protest the presence of military recruiters on campus without forfeiting federal aid. MORE...

Sexual Intelligence: UK tears off American gag
March 22, 2006

In 2001, President George W. Bush instituted America's Global Gag Rule, cutting off family planning assistance to any international group that even discusses abortion using their non-U.S. funds. To make up for Bush's restrictions, the U.K. gave $5 million to a new Global Safe Abortion Program. MORE...

APRIL

Newdow, SNL's Sweeney join Secular Coalition advisory board
April 19, 2006

Two famous atheists, Michael Newdow and Julia Sweeney, recently joined the advisory board of the Secular Coalition for America (SCA). The SCA is a national 501(c)(4) lobbying organization that represents the rights of humanists and atheists in Washington DC. MORE...

MAY

Norway Moves Toward Disestablishment
May 3, 2006

This May, Norway opened a series of hearings on Monday to consider a separation of church and state after 469 years of Lutheranism as the official religion. In December, the Lutheran Church of Norway had voted to separate itself from the state after 500 years of establishment. MORE...

Crisis Pregnancy Centers: More Tools in the Anti-Choice Arsenal
May 10, 2006

Anti-choice crusaders have been using fake "clinics" to deceive women about abortion. HNN Editor Elaine Friedman investigated how this is affecting women. MORE...

Forced Worship in Schools to Be Further Tightened
May 10, 2006

Churches in England pressured the government to enforce a law that requires all schools to hold an act of mainly Christian collective worship every day. The National Secular Society (U.K.) spoke out about this indoctrination, calling it an abuse of human rights that denies the nearly 60 percent of British students who are atheist or agnostic to exercise their freedom of conscience. MORE...

Same-Sex Marriage Comes Before N.Y.S Court of Appeals and U.S. Congress
May 17, 2006

As the New York Court of Appeals and the U.S. Congress prepared to debate same-sex marriage this May, HNN interviewed two lobbyists working to support same-sex marriage and one woman waiting to legally marry another in New York. MORE...

Secularity of Public Space Becoming an Issue in Quebec
May 17, 2006

HNN correspondent Michel Virard of Montreal investigated several court cases in Quebec involving religion intruding upon public spaces in Quebec. MORE...

Humanist Re-elected President of UN Religion Committee
May 31, 2006

Matt Cherry, IHS executive director, was re-elected for a second term as president of the United Nations NGO Committee on Freedom of Religion or Belief. Cherry, a humanist and an atheist, is the first nonreligious person to hold this rank. MORE...

The End of an Era in Nepal
May 31, 2006

This year Nepal transitioned from a Hindu kingdom to a secular state. King Gyanendra caved in to popular opposition and turned over responsibility for the country's future to the ministers and parliament. MORE...

Free Expression Under Threat in Europe, Warn Secularists
May 31, 2006

Although blasphemy is no longer the repressive tool that it once was in Europe, it is sneaking back in a new guise: "respect." MORE...

JUNE

Court of Appeals Hears Arguments for Same-Sex Marriage
June 7, 2006

Arguments were made in the NY Court of Appeals for and against same-sex marriage in June. Six weeks later, the court ruled that the state constitution does not grant the right of same sex couples to marry. MORE...

25th Anniversary of AIDS Highlights Failure of US Policy
June 7, 2006

The 25th anniversary of AIDS brings attention to the failure Bush's abstinence-only policies. MORE...

Court Rulings: The Good and the Bad
June 21, 2006

A United States district court judge dismissed a lawsuit brought by a California atheist against the US government for its use of the phrase "In God We Trust" on its coins and currency. MORE...

Moral Choices and the HPV Vaccine
June 21

Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) is the primary cause of cervical cancer, which afflicts 10,000 American women a year. This year, an HPV vaccine made headlines but so did opposition to the vaccine. Because the vaccine can be administered to teenagers before they become sexually active, some Christians believe the vaccine will provide teenagers and young adults with a false sense of security, leading them to engage in sexual activity before marriage. MORE...

JULY

Another Defeat for Medical Marijuana
July 5, 2006

The U.S. government voted to continue to allow prosecution of those who use marijuana for medical purposes. MORE...

The Perfect Storm
July 5, 2006

The Bush White House launched an unprecedented effort to involve churches and other religious groups in emergency relief programs -- all at public expense. MORE...

Atheist Activism Stifled in Italy
July 5, 2006

Luigi Cascioli, a 72-year-old atheist from Viterbo, Italy who brought a lawsuit against an Italian priest in January, was fined by an appeals court in Rome for bringing a fraudulent suit. By insisting that Jesus Christ existed, son of a virgin, miracle worker and God incarnate, Cascioli alleges that the Church creates a mythical person, an act that amounts to impersonation, which is a crime in Italy. MORE...

Religious Criticism Is Not Religious Hatred
July 12, 2006

Human rights abusers who are part of the UN Human Rights Council insisted that their religion not be criticized. Roy Brown, president of the International Humanist and Ethical Union challenged the notion of granting unfair privileges for states that violate human rights in the name of religion. MORE...

Humanist Philanthropy
July 19, 2006

Warren Buffett joined a list of philanthropists -- who are also atheists -- using his fortune to make the world a better place. Buffett, the world's second-richest man, stunned the world by announcing that he will begin donating $37 billion of his fortune to five foundations. Five-sixths of the money will go to The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, run by Bill Gates, the world's richest man (an agnostic). MORE...

AUGUST

Good News and Bad News for Reproductive Rights
Aug. 2, 2006

While the FDA may finally act responsibly regarding over-the-counter emergency contraception, the religious right continues to influence reproductive policy. MORE...

Double Jeopardy for the First Amendment -- Congress Mulls Scheme to Save Mt. Soledad Cross, Discourage State-Church Litigation
Aug. 2, 2006

Lawmakers attempted to authorize the federal government to purchase the controversial Mt. Soledad Christian cross in San Diego, Calif. and discourage litigation over other First Amendment issues by ending compensatory attorney fees even if the government is found at fault. Freethinkers around the country opposed the move. MORE...

Suffer the Children: The U.S. and the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child
Aug. 9, 2006

Why won't the U.S. ratify the "United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child" which protects children from executions? MORE...

Australian Youth Follow the Secular Trend
Aug. 16, 2006

A study found that less than half Australia's young people say they believe in a god, and many believe there is little truth in religion. MORE...

Is the International AIDS Conference too Political?
Aug. 23, 2006

Prime Minister Harper loses a good opportunity to fulfill Canadian commitments due to political expediency. MORE...

Founder of Atheist Centre Dies at 94
Aug. 23 2006

Saraswathi Gora may be gone but her legacy lives on. MORE...

SEPTEMBER

With God on Their Side: The New U.S. Military
Sept. 6, 2006

Evangelical organizations used aggressive tactics to encourage religious coercion and proselytizing in the military. MORE...

A Prayer Service by Any Other Name: A Report on NOSHA v. the City of New Orleans
Sept. 6, 2006

The city of New Orleans tried to silence and exclude humanists from its city sponsored prayer service. But Harry Greenberger of the New Orleans Secular Humanist Association stood up for humanist ideas at Katrina commemoration events. After all, there are atheists in hurricane zones! MORE...

Religious Proselytizing: An Emerging Phenomenon in Nepal
Sept. 6, 2006

Nepal is a recently formed secular state. But already Christian and Muslim fundamentalists are posing a threat to this new secular society. MORE...

The Brights: Where Are They Now?
Sept. 13, 2006

The Brights came onto the freethought scene three years ago and caused quite a stir. They generated a tremendous amount of positive publicity for their naturalist movement. Many atheists and other freethinkers did not like the notion of calling oneself a "bright". But that was three years ago! Elaine Friendman, HNN editor, spoke to the Brights to see what they've done lately. MORE...

OCTOBER

Separation of Church and State: An Important Victory in Quebec
Oct. 4, 2006

Canadian secularists win a court case involving public prayer. MORE...

President Bush's "Third Awakening" and the Mixing of Church and State
Oct. 4, 2006

The debate in the United States is not really between believers and secularists, but rather between believers and believers, with some nonbelievers in the mix. MORE...

Find Elected Atheist, Win $1000
Oct. 11, 2006

Name the highest ranking elected official in the U.S. who is openly non-theistic and win $1,000. The Secular Coalition for America is holding a contest. Deadline Dec. 31. MORE...

Hope for Expanding the Rights of the Non-Religious
Oct. 11, 2006

Speaking at a banquet to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief, Senator Gordon Smith (R-OR) said he would introduce an amendment to the Senate to expand the scope of the International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA) of 1998 to include the U.S. If passed, a new standard may offer significant benefits to campaigners for the rights of the non-religious. MORE...

A Nation of 300 Million: Cause for Celebration or Alarm?
Oct. 18, 2006

At 7:46 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Oct. 17, the United States officially became a nation of 300 million people. Is that too many people? Or are too few people hogging too many resources? MORE...

NOVEMBER

The U.S. Election: What's Next for Humanist Issues?
Nov. 8, 2006

Midterm election reaction from atheist lobbyist Lori Lipman Brown of the Secular Coalition for America. MORE...

Sexual Intelligence: "Them" or "Us?"
Nov. 8, 2006

Republican Congressman Mark Foley made headlines with a scandal in which he made inappropriate sexual advances toward his male teenage paige. Foley is gay, but the Religious Right confused being gay with being a pedophile. Sex therapist Marty Klein sets the record straight with this installment of "Sexual Intelligence." MORE...

The Culture War at the Polls
Nov. 15, 2006

Was the recent U.S. election a victory for humanists in the Culture War? On key humanist issues, such as keeping religion out of government and protecting freedom of conscience, we saw some successful referendum results and promising election returns. MORE...

The Bush Backlash
Nov. 22, 2006

The Bush administration has appointed a new chief of family-planning programs at the Department of Health and Human Services who believes in abstinence-only sexual education. He works at a Christian pregnancy-counseling organization that regards the distribution of contraceptives as "demeaning to women." MORE...

DECEMBER

Humanists Sue to Stop Voting in Religious Venues
Dec. 13, 2006

The newly opened Appignani Humanist Legal Center has filed a case against churches that used religious propaganda at polling stations. MORE...

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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Atheism, Church-state, Politics, Philosophy, Intelligent Design, Evolution, Creationism

"Genuine Dialogue" in Religion

As should be painfully obvious to anyone who stops in to read my ramblings from time to time, I consider the intersection of religion and culture, politics, and science the most important source material to write about and comment on. Sure, I dabble in a bit of armchair philosophizing, and even a bit of UF campus reporting from time to time, but this is where my main interests have always been.

Mark C. Taylor wrote an op-ed piece in the NYT ("Times Select" subscribers only) focusing on the intersection of religious education and academic freedom. I got it from Chris Hallquist, and he picked up from Andy Sullivan. I want to relay the full-text below, and give my commentary in italics between paragraphs.

The Devoted Student
by Mark C. Taylor, 12/21/06, NYT, A(39)L

More college students seem to be practicing traditional forms of religion today than at any time in my 30 years of teaching.

SDM: I have no doubt he's right. I would go so far as to say that modern fundamentalism in the United States among university students may be at an all-time high since the early 20C.

At first glance, the flourishing of religion on campuses seems to reverse trends long criticized by conservatives under the rubric of ''political correctness.'' But, in truth, something else is occurring. Once again, right and left have become mirror images of each other; religious correctness is simply the latest version of political correctness. Indeed, it seems the more religious students become, the less willing they are to engage in critical reflection about faith.

SDM: The cultural context in which my generation has grown up needs to be considered here. The idea of "culture wars" and the fostering of a mentality of "us vs. them" really reached a head in the Evangelical community sometime in the past two decades. From court cases deciding "creation science" to unprecedented discontentment with the MSM and Hollywood, Evangelicals have resorted to insulating their own like never before. Homeschooled children are one example of this phenomenon. Science-free "creation science" being pushed hard under the guise of some new "Intelligent Design" is another.

The chilling effect of these attitudes was brought home to me two years ago when an administrator at a university where I was then teaching called me into his office. A student had claimed that I had attacked his faith because I had urged him to consider whether Nietzsche's analysis of religion undermines belief in absolutes. The administrator insisted that I apologize to the student. (I refused.)

SDM: And rightly so. Thank you for taking a stand for academic freedom. Why did this blockhead attend a university if he did not want to challenge the foundations of his knowledge and beliefs? Why not go to some unaccredited online Bible college [try Baugh's] if he just wanted to reinforce his presuppositions? Those who fear exposure to alternative views should just crawl into a cave and wait to die, and allow the bustling, diverse scientific era to pass on by without them.

My experience was not unique. Today, professors invite harassment or worse by including ''unacceptable'' books on their syllabuses or by studying religious ideas and practices in ways deemed improper by religiously correct students.

SDM: Indeed. In my own state, a delegate [Baxley] attempted to get a bill passed that would allow students to sue their professors in certain situations where they felt discriminated against for being a part of the Socratic method. Pathetic.

Distinguished scholars at several major universities in the United States have been condemned, even subjected to death threats, for proposing psychological, sociological or anthropological interpretations of religious texts in their classes and published writings. In the most egregious cases, defenders of the faith insist that only true believers are qualified to teach their religious tradition.

SDM: Funny part is when you start trying to define a "True Believer"^®: with respect to Christianity -- the Catholics will tell you one thing, the Protestants another, the Charismatics another, the Calvinists another...And how exactly do we test for genuine faith? Perhaps the person only agrees with a statement of faith for reasons of gaining employment or tenure, but doesn't really believe it! [start scary music]

At a time when colleges and universities engage in huge capital campaigns and are obsessed with public relations, faculty members can no longer be confident they will remain free to pose the questions that urgently need to be asked.

SDM: And who really suffers? The generations to come. Ignorance is, unfortunately, cumulative.

For years, I have begun my classes by telling students that if they are not more confused and uncertain at the end of the course than they were at the beginning, I will have failed. A growing number of religiously correct students consider this challenge a direct assault on their faith. Yet the task of thinking and teaching, especially in an age of emergent fundamentalisms, is to cultivate a faith in doubt that calls into question every certainty.

SDM: This is coming from a professor of religion, teaching courses about religion. How students could sign up for such courses and not think that they base assumptions will be challenged is beyond me.

It is also important to explore the similarities and differences between and among various religions. Religious traditions are not fixed and monolithic; they are networks of symbols, myths and rituals, which evolve over time by adapting to changing circumstances. If we fail to appreciate the complexity and diversity within, and among, religious traditions, we will overlook the fact that people from different traditions often share more with one another than they do with many members of their own tradition.

SDM: But that must be ignored by the "True Believer"^®! Elsewise, it starts to look like God has more than one "Chosen People"^®. And that's unacceptable to this sort of religious troglodyte.

If chauvinistic believers develop deeper analyses of religion, they might begin to see in themselves what they criticize in others. In an era that thrives on both religious and political polarization, this is an important lesson to learn -- one that extends well beyond the academy.
Since religion is often most influential where it is least obvious, it is imperative to examine both its manifest and latent dimensions. As defenders of a faith become more reflective about their own beliefs, they begin to understand that religion can serve not only to provide answers that render life more secure but also to prepare them for life's unavoidable complexities and uncertainties.

SDM: And I really believe that these complexities and uncertainties are the real cause of the faux certainty held by such dogmatists. They cannot handle a universe in which there are things without answers, laws without authors, effects without known causes. Thus, they retreat into the delusional security of ancient myth, adopted as historical fact, to comfort them. Further, this sort of soothing music to the ears of reason is but preaching to the choir -- the words falling upon stone cold closed-mindedness where it is most needed.

Until recently, many influential analysts argued that religion, a vestige of an earlier stage of human development, would wither away as people became more sophisticated and rational. Obviously, things have not turned out that way. Indeed, the 21st century will be dominated by religion in ways that were inconceivable just a few years ago. Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not.

SDM: This is something I've written about before. One point that should not be overlooked in contemplating the rise of religious fundamentalism is the correlation between it and higher birthrates. Given that children almost always follow in the religion of their parents, the most dogmatic procreate fastest and thus accelerate tension in the future.

The warning signs are clear: unless we establish a genuine dialogue within and among all kinds of belief, ranging from religious fundamentalism to secular dogmatism, the conflicts of the future will probably be even more deadly.

SDM: The question is -- do people want genuine dialogue? Reading the panelists in the recent Newsweek section "On Faith" leaves me with little hope.
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Technorati tags: God, Religion

Article in the St. Petersburg Times on Dixie County 10C

Read it HERE. I haven't forgotten about Dixie County; note that I've spoken personally with the person who contacted the FFRF about their discontentment. The inside scoop is this: they are looking for friends to come together and file as co-plaintiffs. They just don't want to go it alone. Thus, it's coming, Dixie County...justice, I mean. Here's a recap of local coverage:

1. Gainesville Sun -- 11/28
2. Dixie County Advocate -- 11/30
3. Alligator -- 11/30
4. Alligator -- 12/1 (editorial)
5. FFRF Press Release -- 12/1
6. Gainesville Sun -- 12/02
7. 3 Letters to the Editor at the Sun -- pro, pro, con (12/2)
8. Dixie County Advocate -- 12/7
9. 2 More Letters to the Editor at the Sun -- pro (12/12), con (12/17)
10. St. Petersburg Times -- 1/1/07

The full-text of the newest article is below the fold:

It's a battle not written in stone
by Sherri Day, 1/1/07

CROSS CITY - To government officials, it was a simple request: A local business owner wanted to donate a monument of the Ten Commandments and place it on the steps of the Dixie County Courthouse.

The commissioners, all professed Christians, approved the gift and its placement outside the building in the center of town that is home to several government agencies, including the County Commission.

The monument, a chunk of black granite, went up after Thanksgiving. It stands more than 5 feet tall, weighs 6 tons and cost $20,000.

Word about the rock spread, all the way to Gainesville, leading atheists and agnostics there to contact the Freedom From Religion Foundation. They are threatening a lawsuit if the commission doesn't reverse itself and remove the monument.

There's just one problem: the foundation can't find anyone in this rural county of roughly 14,000 residents to participate in the proposed lawsuit.

Locals are unlikely to back the foundation's efforts, confirmed Shelly Cannon, who works in the courthouse.

"Mostly our big flak has been from people in big cities," Cannon said. "One guy from Tallahassee came all the way down here to tell every office that he supported it. You're going to have some non-Christians, but if people practiced it, the world would be a better place."

All the posturing on both sides has made Dixie County the latest battleground in the debate over the separation of church and state.

News crews from across the country have taken notice. In late November, Fox News' Hannity & Colmes featured a debate between the county's former attorney and a University of Florida atheist. National newspapers, including the Washington Post, have called townspeople for interviews. Supporters from all over the country, including Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington, D.C., have phoned to encourage the commissioners, commission secretaries said.

The Thomas More Law Center, a nonprofit public-interest law firm in Michigan that advocates for the religious freedom of Christians, offered to defend the commission for free if the matter winds up in court.

Roy Moore, the Alabama judge who was booted from the bench in 2003 for refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the state courthouse rotunda, also has offered support.

He said the Dixie County conflict is much more than a Florida dispute.

"Do we take 'In God We Trust' from our money?" Moore asked. "Do we take our 'under God' from our pledge? It's about the removal of the acknowledgement of a supreme being, the Judeo-Christian God from which this nation was based, and I say 'No, we can't do that. It's wrong and it's harmful to do that.' "

Residents not keen on outsiders' opinions

The fight - if it can be called that - clearly favors the insiders. Situated about 50 miles west of Gainesville, Dixie County has about 14,000 residents, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. It has four traffic lights, and its primary employers are timber companies and corrections facilities. There are at least 20 churches. On Sundays, locally owned restaurants and liquor stores close up shop.

Residents don't take kindly to outsiders telling them what to do.

"I'm a devout Florida State fan," said Hoyt "Buddy" Lamb, a county commissioner and faithful Baptist. "When I go to Gainesville, I see this Gator logo displayed on the street corners and all. But I hadn't went over there and said, 'That offends me. I want them removed because I'm a devout Seminole fan.' I don't think it's my business to go over there and tell them to do that any more than it is their business to come here and tell us what to do."

The foundation's supporters, who number 8,000 atheists and agnostics nationwide and 436 in Florida, say that allowing the Ten Commandments to remain on the courthouse steps violates the First Amendment. They also say commissioners are ignoring recent court rulings that prohibit such displays.

"I think it may take a while" to find a local party to the lawsuit, acknowledged Annie Laurie Gaylor, the co-president of the Madison, Wis., foundation, which works to keep religion out of government. "We have a lot of members in Florida. We just don't happen to have anybody in Dixie County."

The lack of a suitable plaintiff in Dixie County disappoints the group's supporters.

"If I lived there, I wouldn't hesitate to put my name as a plaintiff," said Jeff Kirk, 55, a foundation member who lives near Gainesville. "I don't understand why they don't put their monument on private property or church property."

Jeffrey Levine, a dental ceramist from Cape Coral, e-mailed the foundation after he heard about the Dixie County monument on television.

"It just galls me that religious people in this country have to smear their religious glands' secretions all over everything in the public rather than leaving the public institutions religion-neutral," said Levine, 61. "The government should not be endorsing anything to do with religion. I don't even like the religious suggestions on our dollar bills."

Though relatively quiet, there are voices of discontent in Dixie County.

"I'm Native American," Deborah Wright, 42, an aspiring prison guard said last month while looking at the monument. "Are they going to put my Native American Ten Commandments up there? They're only representing one, and we are many."

Allen Cook, a Wiccan who dropped by the courthouse to take a look at the monument, agreed.

"I don't know why they put it up," said Cook, 20, surrounded by a group of his Wiccan friends. "Nobody in Dixie County follows them anyway."

Driving by the courthouse, the Rev. Tommy Wayne Liles saw the youths, one of whom wore a T-shirt decrying false and feeble gods, and stopped.

"God's people need to stand up and be heard," said Liles, his voice booming in the courthouse hallways. "They need to let their voices be heard that they do stand for God."

Monument opponents aren't giving up

So far, it appears to be working. The commission, at least, has its mind set in stone.

"It's a great thing," said Commission Chairman James T. Valentine, a lifelong Dixie County resident and palm tree harvester.

The 59-year-old wears a gold cross pin on his lapel and testifies that he was healed from paralysis at 11 years old by a group of hard-praying Pentecostals. "I believe in the Ten Commandments. I stand for it. It didn't cost the county a dime."

Foundation leaders say they intend to keep trying.

Recently, they got a call from a Dixie County resident who refused to join the lawsuit but called to express support.

"We haven't given up," Gaylor said. "At this time of year, people are so busy. Lawsuits can sometimes take a long time to file. In terms of putting on a lawsuit, this is nothing."

Times researcher Cathy Wos contributed to this report. Sherri Day can be reached at 813-226-3405 or sday@sptimes.com

Dixie County
Where: 55 miles west of Gainesville
Population: 13,827
Churches: About 20
Faith: Majority evangelical Christian
Largest Denomination : Southern Baptist
Source: The U.S. Census Bureau and the Association of Religion Data Archives
[Last modified January 3, 2007, 00:56:34]

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Hopefully we all know who that rotten atheist on Hannity & Colmes was ;-)
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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Church-state

What I Missed While Out of Town

I have been on hiatus [left on the 20th, got back last night] whilst traveling about Old Dominion. I had a great Christmas break and hope everyone else has as well.

I see I missed another spate at scienceblogs between Ed and PZ. This time, the spate arose over Dawkins' endorsement (and retraction thereof) of a petition. Same old shit, different day.

(A) What's the best thing for science education?
(B) What's the best thing to counter religious fundamentalism?
(C) What's more important to counter, if the answers to those two questions are mutually exclusive?

On the side of rationalism, people want to divide neatly into two major camps: 1) Genie Scott, Nick Matzke, Wesley Elsberry and Ed Brayton... 2) PZ Myers, Larry Moran, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris...

These same people argue that (1) is only concerned with (A) and holds enough antipathy towards (B) to have no hesitation in answering (C). They argue the same for (2) with respect to (B) over (A).

I don't know if such a simple bifurcation is possible. However, let's just go along with it to make things easier. I think we all know that (A) is largely a subset of the overarching problem of (B). I think what we all don't know is whether or not it is possible/laudable/feasible/advisable to take on (B) with scientific authority, ie bringing a unified group of vocal public science authorities to bear against religious fundamentalism with publications and talks.

None of those people in camp (1) are fans of religious fundamentalism, and I am sure all would love to see the dissolution of such mindsets. What they fear, I think, is linking science with anti-religion. People in (2) may argue that this dichotomy (science/religion) has already happened in culture and been solidified in the fundy mindset. People in (1) may counter that science is neither philosophically equipped nor morally normative for such an endeavor as (B).

In this age in which we live, is the greatest danger we face lack of science education, or religious fundamentalism? Is one the cause of the other, or the effect? If we can't agree on those two questions, then perhaps the categories may be accurate, after all.

I hope cooler heads prevail, that PZ and Ed realize they're fighting on the same side against irrationalism, and that more focus is put upon these latter two questions and more focus is put upon (C).
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Technorati tags: God, Religion, Evolution